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Author Topic: Questions about the PC muscle - and tensing it during stimulation  (Read 53517 times)
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scampifries
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« on: March 24, 2011, 04:08:38 AM »

Hi,

I've been trying to achieve MMO on and off for years, but have never had any success with it.  I've read both The Multi Orgasmic Man by Mantak Chia and also Male Multiple Orgasm by Ian Kessler.  Both seem to prescribe the PC squeeze technique, but there are some things which aren't really clear...

If I squeeze my PC muscle during arousal/stimulation, then it seems to make me climax more quickly and ejaculate, and I've seen lots of other people saying the same thing.  Books which talk about squeezing the PC muscle in order to reduce arousal (and eventually to achieve MMO) seem to make the assumption that your PC muscle is not already contracted to start with.

For me, when I start masturbating, I automatically seem to tense my PC muscle, which just seems to take me on a very fast ride to ejaculation.  I think that maybe this reflex to tense the PC muscle during stimulation is (as Mantak Chia suggests) caused by a childhood of trying to jack off as quickly as possible.  It's like a reflex where as soon as stimulation starts my PC muscle contracts.

For people who have success with the PC squeeze technique my guess is that they are not tensing it to start with, but that they naturally relax it during stimulation.

Is this right?  What do yo PC squeezers do?  Do you feel like it is naturally tense during stimulation, or is it naturally relaxed?  As someone mentioned in another post, lots of porn stars seem to penetrate with their penis pointing downwards, something which is very hard to do if your PC is contracted.

On his site (http://actionlove.com/), Dr Lin talks about a technique which involves relaxing the PC muscle, and instead tensing the 'tailbone' muscle, so that eventually you have the involutary contractions in your 'tailbone' muscle instead of in your PC muscle, and hence you have an orgasm with contractions but with no ejaculation.  And this kind of leads onto my next question, which is about which part of the PC muscle is being squeezed...

In Ian Kessler's book he says that there are really 2 muscles down there, the PC muscle and the bulbospongiosus (BS) muscle.  He suggests that it's the BS muscle which runs above your scrotum to the base of your penis (the one that makes your penis move when you clench it) which does the actual ejaculating, and the PC muscle which runs from your coccyx above your anus forwards to the back of your public bone which is the one that you want to tense.

My guess is, that a lot of people confuse the two (or don't even know that there are 2 separate muscles) and hence lots of people struggle with the PC squeeze technique, whilst other pick it up very quickly, depending on which bit they're clenching.  I also think that perhaps what Dr Lin is referring to as the 'tailbone' musicle is actually the PC muscle, and that what he refers to as the PC muscle is actually the BS muscle.

My guess is that you should relax the BS muscle (the one that makes you ejaculate) and tense the PC msucle to prevent it.  Although having never had any success either way I'm obviously still doing something wrong.

Can anyone shed any light on what's what down there with these muscles, and whether or not you should tense either of them during stimulation, and which one is the key one to clench for the 'PC squeeze' (or 'BS squeeze'??) technique?

Thanks

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Cirvante
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 07:57:45 AM »

I would suggest relaxing the muscle during stimulation. Achieving orgasm really fast takes all the fun out of it.
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Fred
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 09:52:33 AM »

I had a few success trying to relax everything. Sometimes I got really nice orgasms: sometimes it lasts longer and once I had one that came in waves (REALLY pleasurable). I got it stopping stimulation just as soon as I considered that what I was feeling was already an orgasm and I still didn't ejaculate (sometimes you wil ejaculate a little bit, but its ok since you keep trying to relax your muscles). I can have something like 2 or 3 orgasms in a row using this technique and then I feel like I'm not aroused enough to keep doing it. But it's still not what I'm looking for: most of the times the orgasms are not as strong as ejaculatory ones and it frustrated me a lot (I stopped trying it all in order to have better orgasms, but I'm thinking of starting to train it againd soon) and I find it very hard to do with a partner.

I didn't know that we had 2 muscles, I thought everything were different parts and I think it's very hard to clench one and keep the other relaxed. I also have this instinct of clenching the muscles automaticaly, I don't even think about it, it's a reflex. Think I'll try to concentrate on relaxing it all the time and, if I discover something new, I'll surely write it here to discuss with you!
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SDragon
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2013, 05:44:33 AM »

I registered on the board because I too believe that tightening the muscle that 'twitches' your cock is NOT the right muscle to use when controlling ejaculation.  Having spent years trying to control that muscle thinking it was the PC muscle, it was frustrating not to be able to control my body - it would result in more intense orgasms but that was all.  So I found your thread and wanted to reply.

Now that I'm re-teaching myself to relax that muscle and use the muscle that is further 'up' the anus, possibly the coccyx area that you mention, I get orgasms that feel like ejaculating but with no sperm, just pre-cum.  And I can achieve multiple orgasms this way without losing the firmness of my erection, since as other doctrines mention retaining sperm inside the kidney/testicles is the key to maintaining a cock that can go all night so to speak.

The way I retaught myself was to not clench the twitch muscle but to clench the buttocks to control arousal energy.  This initially resulted in slight leakage as its not the muscle itself, but what it will teach you is to learn about the different muscle groups in and around your groin area.  Once you are able to feel the difference, you will gain better control with more relaxation and less anxiety about performance. 

Once you gain a feel for how your body triggers orgasm and ejaculation, the next job is to identify when your mind is being aroused to the point where ejaculation may occur.  Because arousal needs to be identified mentally, and not just in your body.  By the time you start to feel it in your body for beginners, your muscle are already usually starting the climax sequence. 

Learn the 4-5 different muscles, identify your mental arousal state and when you can manipulate both your mind and body - now that's control.  You can use deep breathing to reduce arousal, but what it's really doing is focusing your mind.  When you can do that yourself, breathing will take care of itself.

Hope that helps some people as it may not work for everyone, but its my own personal experience.
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SDragon
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2013, 05:54:02 AM »

Oh, one other thing.  All other times when I clenched the 'twitch' muscle, it would result in retrograde ejaculation.  That means some sperm would be retained but some would go into the bladder.  And after the first orgasm, it would be harder to maintain a firm cock.  

With the coccyx or correct PC muscle, I could feel the sexual energy go up my spine and there was no traces of sperm in my piss after.  And the erection stays firm the entire time.  If ancients were worshipping a rock hard phallus, that's definitely the phallus they were worshipping. You got to experience it for yourself.

Just some more information - maybe tmi but its all to help other people Smiley
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 06:12:05 AM by SDragon » Logged
scampifries
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 01:10:11 PM »

Thanks SDragon, that pretty much confirms what I've been thinking... that the 'twitch' muscle is the wrong muscle.

I read Mantak Chia's book (The Multi-Orgasmic Man) years ago, which was great because it taught me that MMO was possible, but it definitely didn't teach me how to do it.  It talked about training your PC muscle by lifting a towel on your penis, i.e. using the twitch muscle.  But that is almost definitely not the right muscle.

Then I read some stuff on actionlove.com, which suggested contracting your tailbone muscle (in between your anus and your tail bone), but that never seems to have enough stopping power to actually control the ejaculation.

So I've recently been trying with tensing another muscle (or muscles).  It kind of feels like it's around the base of the penis (between your balls and your anus), and it feels like I'm sort of squeezing the base of the penis from the sides and pulling down and slightly forward.  It's almost like tensing the 'twitch' muscle, but downwards instead of up, which doesn't make the penis twitch.  Tensing this muscle seems to reduce my arousal very effectively.  I haven't managed to have a dry orgasm with it yet, but I've only tried a couple of times.

You say there are 4-5 different muscles though.  Can you describe the different ones and how you distinguish them/how they feel?
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john812736817
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 05:24:24 PM »

I agree with what you say about chias book, its all very vague and really hard to squeeze out the information you need. i am not able to have dry orgasms, or multiples, at that. at the moment i am trying to identify and study the flow of sexual energy through the microcosmic orbit, which is somewhat hard for me.

now these different muscles.. is the "right" muscle for MMO the one you use when defecating, along with the abdominal muscles?

I am slightly confused as to what muscles you are talking about, and how to find them.
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KeepitupJohnson
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 05:36:01 PM »

Take a piss. Which muscles stopped the stream? Well?
Strong muscles stop within a drop. Did you notice how the persistent urge to let it all out diminishes only after you suck the pee up deep inside of you?

I can stop ejaculation by squeezing any one of the muscle groups you guys are talking about. I think what matters most is not where we squeeze, but rather how the fuck we diminish the persistent urge to let it all out.

Two suggestions:
1. Practice with a full tank.
It's like driving a performance car - the handling is better - firmer steering, better control - you don't have to fantasize to get the results you want. Fucking a new woman - even if it's only a fantasy - lets it all out.

2. Suck your sperm up deep inside of you and store it up your spine
Yes, you can suck your sperm deep inside of you. Squeeze long and hard.

There's an easier way called tantra. Compared to tantra, tensing and squeezing one of the PC muscle groups (anus, groin, or cock or all three) to avoid cumming is like bobbing and weaving with the champ in a boxing ring. You can get by, but eventually, there's a good chance you'll get knocked out.
Wouldn't it be easier if your opponent was a girl? Wouldn't it be more fun to make love to her than to fight her?

This is tantra coming in to play. Make friends with your sexual energy. Learn to suck your sexual energy out of your cock and up your spine. Then when you climb into the ring, your stuff doesn't get knocked out of you. You get high on love instead.

How does it feel to actually move sexual energy out of the penis? I worked with an artist for a year, and we created a picture book that actually gives the feel. My word processor says I wrote at the 5.7 grade level, I am pleased with that.

Buy the book for the Chapter on How to use your PC muscles. It's good. Yes, you can suck your sexual energy up your spine. There's a chapter full of tips and a chapter on curing premature ejaculation. Love Satisfies is 188 pages long with a picture on every other page. Enjoy it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1479215694/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1479215694&linkCode=as2&tag=wwwlovesatisf-20

Peace and love, Keepitup Johnson
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 07:21:14 PM by KeepitupJohnson » Logged

Keepitup Johnson, author of Love Satisfies, how to have infinite male multiple orgasms, available from Amazon.com
scampifries
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 01:41:51 PM »

Take a piss. Which muscles stopped the stream? Well?
Strong muscles stop within a drop. Did you notice how the persistent urge to let it all out diminishes only after you suck the pee up deep inside of you?

Yes, that makes complete sense.  If you stop pissing half way through then you still feel like you need to go.  But if you stop for several seconds and 'retract' the piss (for want of a better term) then the urge kind of goes away.

And I 'retract' my sperm in a similar way, but it seems directly connected with my arousal, so if I retract my sperm them I am nowhere near orgasm, and to get back close to orgasm I have to 'reload' my sperm.  I'm struggling to separate the two.

Any pointers?

(I've ordered your book, I hope it's good!)
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KeepitupJohnson
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 12:57:12 AM »

I know first hand what you are talking about because i've experienced it in exactly the same way.
What comes to mind first is suggesting going for a week or two without ejaculating. When we're really full of sexual fluid, there is no reload period. You will enjoy working with all your sexual power. There's more to squeeze. There's a shorter response time.

To avoid ejaculation, continue what you are already doing - you're good - plus may i suggest mentally moving all your sexual energy out of your groin. Before a man stands up, first he thinks about standing up. Then his energy moves, and he rises. The body serves the mind. Everyone knows this, but not many men think about it in bed. In bed, if we are thinking at all, most of us are thinking hot, sexy thoughts which trigger ejaculation, followed quickly by the complete absence of thinking.

Leaving a candle burning under one body part, even for an instant, has a disastrous effect. Many of us light up a few candles in bed, and then a cigarette afterwards. Most of us focus on tits and ass, fantasize, and then heat up that one body part. This is like focussing all of the sun's energy through a magnifying glass into a paper bag - the bag burns out.

When we are full of sexual fluid, its movements are magnified and easily felt. When we are full of sexual fluid, we don't need to think sexy thoughts to have sex. Our sexual energy is enormous! Pay attention to your thoughts! Lust is like poison that must be drained through He Who Must Be Obeyed.

Sexual energy flows where our mind goes. When you feel lots of energy down there, squeeze it up like you do when you have to pee. Fill your whole body with this beautiful, loving energy. Sexual energy is just energy, and energy flows where your attention goes. Think about this beautiful, loving energy moving, and you will feel it move.  Think about this huge energy moving into your partner, or into the universe (if you are practicing solo), and move it up your spine, and all around your body. When your sexual energy isn't stuck in one place, the urge to ejaculate disapates. Imagine your loving, sexual energy roaring through your body, hers, and the universe - nothing gets burned. Try it.

Peace and love, Keepitup Johnson
Ps.  Thanks for ordering a copy of my book. It's good. You'll like it.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 06:16:31 PM by KeepitupJohnson » Logged

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scampifries
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 03:12:05 AM »

Thanks Keepitup, I will try this new approach.  Just a couple of questions..

When you circulate the energy through the body in this way, what 'type' of orgasm do you end up with?  And are you still employing a squeeze technique with it?

And do you have a recommended position to try this in (solo)?  Standing up?  Lying down?  Seated?

Thanks
scampifries
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KeepitupJohnson
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 12:37:42 PM »

Any position is fine.


The man who has only one tool, a hammer, tends to pound on everything. Wheelchair-bound men, who can't feel their dicks, learn to have wonderful, sexual orgasms. One man has orgasms in his thumb. Another in his ears.

We can feel orgasms wherever our awareness is. Focus enough sexual energy on one place in your body, and you'll feel an orgasm there. Focus on your heart and your heart will orgasm. Focus on your penis, and you'll have an orgasm there.

Orgasms are all about building up energy and then releasing it. Dry orgasms live in between wet orgasms and no orgasms at all.  Not enough energy = no orgasm at all. Too much energy in the penis = ejaculation.

To get the right amount of energy in my penis to have a dry orgasm, I simply regulate the energy in my penis:

1. Speed and friction / stop, slow, or go
2. Move energy in or out of my penis
3. PC muscle squeeze/release

I maintain a PC squeeze throughout my session (about as much pressure as a handshake), and I rlease it when I want to dry orgasm. Doesn't require much squeeze, just awareness that I want to hold something in. You could say it's the same pressure I use to keep from wetting the bed in sleep. When I am ready to have a dry orgasm, I stop the stimulation, release my PC muscles COMPLETELY, and RELAX. It's like coming up to a red light while stepping gently on the brakes. When the light turns green (I know I won't ejaculate), I release the brakes COMPLETELY and RELAX into a dry orgasm.

Better to stop short of an orgasm than to run through the red light. If you ejaculate every time . . .

1. slow down
2. Move sexual energy out of your penis (ie. send it up your back).
3. squeeze harder with the PC muscles.
4. You can also give your cock a hard squeeze with your hand.

No orgasm?

1. speed it up
2. feel the pleasure in the penis (or wherever you choose to orgasm)
3. come closer to the PONR before releasing the PC


This becomes like second nature, after a while, you won't even think about it. All three tools work great; I think moving sexual energy is the most powerful of all of these tools. Building up lots of sexual energy by not ejaculating for a long period is the best way to feel and move your sexual energy.

Love yourself.

Best, Keepitup Johnson
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:43:50 AM by KeepitupJohnson » Logged

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KeepitupJohnson
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2013, 10:24:09 AM »

being able to move sexual energy out of your penis is a valuable tool. Scampifries, because you are pro at moving your sexual energy  Grin, so I suggest you try this:

1. Move sexual energy into your penis to come up to the Point of No Return,
2. MAINTAIN A SLIGHT PC SQUEEZE TO STAY IN CONTROL
3. you're on the edge now, you feel the orgasm coming . . . move your sexual energy out of your penis and let go of your PC.

Relax into a dry orgasm.

Honestly, Keepitup Johnson

Ps. Don't let go of your PC muscle squeeze until you feel most of your sexual energy is out of your penis.
I cover all this in my book, when all your sexual energy is throbbing in your penis, it's demanding wet release! Wait to release your PC muscles until you feel the calm that comes from moving your sexual energy out of there.

How long is this waiting period?
You can move your sex energy out of your penis in a split second, then release your PCs and relax into a dry orgasm. Play with it

I suggest you don't rely on porn or sexual thoughts to build your sexual energy. Rather, go a while without ejaculating to build your sexual energy. What's wrong with porn? It's not a judgement thing, it's just that porn (lust) is heavy energy that just wants to flow down and out.  My book covers this in detail.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 10:52:10 AM by KeepitupJohnson » Logged

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scampifries
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 12:11:32 PM »

Thanks Keepitup, this in-dept information is gold.

It seems that my first task is to wait a few days before trying this again.  And in the meantime I will keep re-read all this info again to properly absorb it.  The book has been dispatched as well, so I'll have some more reading material while letting my energy build up.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer questions on here.  I really appreciate it.  I will report back with my results!

Scampifries
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Jax
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 07:24:00 AM »

Hi all, newb here. Scampifries, I totally identify with what you're saying about the twitching muscle and tailbone muscle, I'm confused as to which is the PC muscle too. Mantak Chia's MOM is simplified compared to his Taoist Secrets of Love. They're both complicated still, and I can't feel my microcosmic orbit after weeks.

@KeepitupJohnson, relaxing the PC muscle into dry orgasm is something new to me. Moving the sexual energy out of the groin up to the spine is similar to Mantak's methods. I can feel the energy in my penis, perenium, moving towards the tailbone. Problem is I can hardly feel it at the spine no matter how I try to "move" it up. Is there something I'm missing, or should be doing differently? Btw hope to be able to get your book soon, reason being it's "not available in my region" Sad
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