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Author Topic: Pseudo-MMOs versus "The Real Thing"  (Read 43693 times)
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« on: August 07, 2008, 06:39:27 PM »

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J.B.
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  Date Posted: 10/17/2004 7:51 PM           
 

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The entry "True Multiorgasmic Response" didn't elaborate on a key problem:

Men can learn to have mini-orgasms (my nonejaculatory orgasms are 70% strength) but it involves

a) "holding back"

b) not easily transferred to intercourse.

c) men practicing so-called MMO techniques (myself included) get bored because you can't really let go during love-making, like my wife; instead, we have to "hold back" at a low plateau so as to not "blip" over during intercourse. My wife, on the other hand, can have real, no-holds-barred MMOs clitorally and vaginally. She is in her late 30s and hitting her prime: orgasms pile upon orgasm WITHOUT EFFORT and sometimes blend together so that she either a) loses consciousness of everything but the pleasure reverbrating through her entire body; or b) imagines flames of pleasure emanating from her clit to the rest of her. FURTHERMORE, female orgasms at mid-life are as strong as they were as a teen because the only way to "exercise" the love muscles is through involuntary orgasmic contractions (true MMOs). I work out religiously and every muscle in my body is in tip-top shape, but because I am not truly MMO, my orgasms have become weaker over time so that occassionally I ejaculate and feel NOTHING at all. I like to say that a man has one orgasm at a time as a teenager; by the time he is 40, he has 1/5th or 1/10th of an orgasm (notice how far your ejaculate shoots at 40 compared to 18--mine just dribbles out and I am in excellent shape).

So, in a word, I've become depressed and bored with this gender gap. It's a lot of work for the middle-aged male to keep his woman satisfied while she keeps "coming and coming" (not every time but often enough to make one green with Venus envy).

God must be a woman, or hate men (notice that Jesus, if you believe he is the Son of God, always took the woman's point of view. Lusting in your heart during masturbation--more common among men--is equivalent to adultery. WWJD: Castration ("if your hand is your problem, cut it off....")!

Is anyone else depressed by this gaping gender gap. My wife complains that she gets so much pleasure and I get so little but I tell her that is the fate of men, we are the "inferior sex," as biologists remind us.

 
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J.B.
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  Date Posted: 10/17/2004 7:53 PM           
 

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P.S.: Women have more erogenous zones too. Some women can "think off." After 20 orgasms or more (she loses count), if I run my finger down my wife's back, she has "backgasms"--real orgasms from the stroking!

 
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PanDragon
 
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  Date Posted: 10/17/2004 11:32 PM               
 

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    Hey J.B.,

  I already replied briefly to your post in "Biochemistry and orgasms," and then I saw your new post here.

  First off, let me just say YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I completely identify with the frustration you're expressing here. I first started trying become multi-orgasmic when I was 18. I didn't accomplish my goal until I was 26. It was a long, hard road to find my own personal satisfaction. But I DID find it. And I believe you can too.

  The difference between how I feel now and I felt back then is like night and day. Believe it or not, I can still remember clearly one night with my high schoool girlfriend, she was having these amazing orgasms and said "you have no idea how good this feels!" I got so depressed, I actually started to cry! How pathetic is that? But that's how "screwed" I felt being a guy. Thinking I'd never feel what she felt. It was horrible.

  But I promise you, things are simply NOT the way they seem. I know, I know you probably feel like you've "tried everything and nothing works," right? Well, I know what you mean, man. I've been there. I bought all the books and video's, Mantak Chia, Margo Anand, Keesling, etc. None of them worked for me, and they are collecting dust on my bookshelf as we speak.

  But allow me to explain a couple very important reasons why those techniques rarely work:

  First and foremost, nearly all MMO techniques today, whether they are based on science or ancient traditions like Tantra, are almost exlusively focused on the differences between men and women. They tend to treat men in a very limited, mechanical way, while women get all goodies!

  How many Tantra sites have you been to that have products for men with words like "control," "power," and "potency" in the titles? While products for women have words like "freeing the female orgasm," "expanding your pleasure," "The Super-O," etc, etc?

  This is a fatal flaw when approaching a subject like pleasure. We, as men and women, are NOT simply the sum of our "parts." We have minds and hearts, and more importantly, we have brains! After all, whether you are male or female, young or old, orgasm occurs in your brain, NOT in your genitals. The trick is in learning the best ways to make use of that fact. The best ways to encourage your brain to trigger orgasmic pleasure without sending signals to your genitals that it's time to "pop."

  What's the best way to do that? Simple - arousal. And by arousal, I mean the experience of pleasure, the feeling of being turned on, not just the physiological event of erection. Any truly accomplished MMO practitioner will tell you, when you are experiencing extrememly high levels of arousal for extended periods of time, your body, and more specifically, your brain, will trigger orgasms automatically, and repeatedly as long as you remain highly aroused. Why does your wife experience those "back-gasms?" not because she's female, but because she is in a high state of arousal. And guess what? You can be too!

  So why do men so rarely achieve this level of arousal? Well you said it yourself, because they tend to hold back. They think they have to hold back. But that's the real myth of male sexuality! And unfortunately, that myth has been perpetuated by virutally everyone from Tantra guru's who teach PC control as *the* way to last longer, to the typical guy on the street who "thinks about batting averages" to avoid being present during the act of sex. But again, this only serves to avoid becoming fully aroused. So they may last longer, but they feel less.

  Now here's the cool part. There's a way to "have your cake and eat it too." You CAN last as long as you want AND be fully present, fully aroused, and indeed fully orgasmic throughout your sexual encounters without ANY need to hold back, distract yourself or squeezes certain muscles at just the right time. You, and just about any man, can learn how to truly LET GO and fully enjoy all the pleasure (and orgasms) you want, without EVER even approaching your Point of No Return.

 How is this possible? It's called KSMO or Key Sound Multiple Orgasm. It's one of only a handful of MMO techniques that don't rely on ejaculation control, but instead on learning how to relax into pleasure, enjoy it fully, and increase your level of arousal to incredibly high levels. The trick is not in trying to "control" your ejaculation, which to me is like trying to control a tiger with a whip and a chair! LOL! Instead you learn how to control your stimulation while you continue to become more and more aroused.

  You see, ejaculation is triggered purely by physical stimulation, not arousal, and not pleasure either. When you learn how to become fully and deeply aroused with just a little bit of stimulation, you can feel pleasure to an extent that is truly orgasmic (not "mini orgasms," I'm talking about REAL ORGASMS, even more pleasurable over more of your body and far longer lasting than ejaculations) without sending signals to your body that it's time to prepare for ejaculation. That way, you're not fighting your own body anymore. And better yet, once you're able to relax into this kind of pleasure, the urge to ejaculate simply fades away unless you decide you want to, in which case all you have to do is stop using the technique and nature will take it's course!

 With KSMO, you're not "holding back" because nothing is trying to "get out." You're simply enhancing your ability to feel intense pleasure without encouraging your body to "start building" towards ejaculation. That way you're not limiting your experience of pleasure. And when you no longer have a limit on how much pleasure you allow yourself to feel, your brain will eventually trigger waves of orgasmic pleasure for you.

  The result is complete and total sexual freedom. You are able to enjoy all the pleasure and orgasms you want without having to "do" anything to "make it happen." It simply happens for you. You don't have to worry about "going over the edge" or feeling "too good" because as long as you follow the technique properly, you won't be doing the things that lead to ejaculation. Using this technique, you simply bypass the urge to ejaculate all together! That means no matter how good your partner feels, or how stimulated you feel, you can completely let go into the experience and FEEL everything without hesitation or worrying about "control."

  Well, now as if you weren't already thinking this is too good to be true, check this out: Your ability to enjoy orgasmic pleasure is NOT dependent upon your age! Again, the thing to remember is that your genitals are not the source of your pleasure. Your brain decides how good you feel.

 If you don't believe me, ask anyone who has ever had sex on the drug Ecstasy (MDMA), how good they felt and if they thought they could feel that good without the drug. Chances are they'll say they can't imagine "regular sex" ever being as good as it was on Ecstasy. Why? Because the drug affected their brain, causing it to release far more endorhpins than usual. But the little known secret is, there is a trick to get those same results without the drugs. The trick is simply to become extremely aroused.

  Now Tantra and Taoist methods have all kinds of long, complicated meditations and exercises to help you accomplish this. KSMO uses a much simpler approach - the Key Sound. I'll spare you a lengthy explaination of the Key Sound except to say that it teaches you how to amplify and expand your arousal to incredible levels, regardless of your age or gender! I actually know guys in their 70's and 80's with NO prior experience with MMO techniques who have learned KSMO successfully and become fully multi-orgasmic within just a few months!

  Again, the key to true orgasmic pleasure is simple - free your brain and your body will follow. It doesn't matter how much "juice" you've got or how far you can squirt it, it doesn't matter how strong your PC muscles are (I never do those exercises) your brain decides how good you will feel from moment to moment. And again, the key to making your brain make you feel good is arousal.

  Now, I realize I've typed half a book here (sorry), but I hope you'll bare with me for just one more interesting tid-bit:

  Regarding what you said here: "P.S.: Women have more erogenous zones too. Some women can "think off." After 20 orgasms or more (she loses count), if I run my finger down my wife's back, she has "backgasms"--real orgasms from the stroking!"

  It's funny you mentioned it, because guess what? With KSMO, I've had experiences virtually identical to what you described. Check this out, I actually wrote this post back in March of this year at the KSMO forum under the name "Pan": http://chat.jackjohnstonseminars.com/wb/Default.asp?action=9&read=1210&fid=114#3641

  In it I describe a better than average, but still not atypical KSMO lovemaking session with my wife, in which we both reached a state of continuing orgasmic pleasure to a point where when she stroked my back, *I* had orgasms in my back from the touch of her fingers! Again, this is intense arousal at work.

  And about that ability that supposedly only women have to "think off," well guess what? That's right, I've learned how to have orgasms just by "thinking" orgasmic thoughts and using a technique called, "Amygdala Clicking." No special breathing techniques and no physical stimulation required whatsoever. You can literally give yourself orgasms without "doing" anything. And I know more than one man who has done the same. You can read more about it here:  http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/sex.html

 

  Rest assured that women do not have a monopoloy on full-body orgasms. It is a HUMAN experience and purely based on arousal, not genitals. Genitals are wonderful. God knows I love mine! But they are not *you* they are part of you. Likewise, they are not your orgasms, they are part of your orgasms.

  So, please keep in mind that although you may be aging, your ability to enjoy more pleasure, even more pleasure than ever before, is as healthy as the day you were born. It's all in your brain! You just need to learn the right ways to access it and that takes practice, patience, and a positive, open, and self-accepting heart and mind. Let go of the past and consider what as yet undiscovered options lay before you. You never know what you might accomplish with a new perspective and the right technique!

  PHEW! Ok, pardon the oh-so-wordy reply. But I remember feeling just like you, I thought God was punishing me with a lifetime sentence of one-shot orgasms too. I want you to know that's NOT TRUE! Us guys have just been screwed all these years in terms of culture and information, not physiology. I've never been happeir to be a man, and I hope the same for you.

  Best of Luck!    : - )

  P.S. For more information about KSMO go here:http://www.multiples.com/pan.html

  Consider reading some of the posts (I recommend the Success Stories), maybe a Chat Archive or two, you'll find a lot of guys who felt the same way you do (and I'm one of them), who now feel a whole lot better!

   

   




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If ya wanna ride those waves, you better wax your board!
 

Message edited by: PanDragon on 10/17/2004 21:55:40[Server Time/GMT -8 Pacific Time]

 
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PanDragon
 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 3:52 AM               
 

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  Just wanted to add one final comment on KSMO:

  If you, or anyone else reading this, decide you want to learn KSMO, whatever you do, please make sure you take advantage of all the free assistance that's available at the website. Download the free pdf file which includes extra tips for success and helps to clarify the instructions. Read posts in the forum, post questions to the KSMO community (that's what we're there for), and try to attend at least one or two live coaching chats so you can get assistance straight from the guy who created the system.

  I know, as guys it's sometimes hard to be humble and admit we don't know everything about sex. Most of us just want to figure things out on our own. But after almost 5 years as a volunteer coach at the website, I can assure you, the guys who learn to have multiples the fastest, are the ones who ask questions and admit when they're feeling stuck here and there in their practice.

  So if you really want to be successful, take advantage of everything that's there to help you find success.

     




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J.B.
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 4:45 PM           
 

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"Well, it sounds too good to be true." I am a guy, I'm not humble--I've read everything and anything for the past ten years on the subject, including esoteric articles in places like _Archives of Sexual Behavior_. I've come across Johnston's site in the past but it sounds too New Agey unbelievable and as I recall it was pretty expensive. I will, however, check it out to see if one more trick won't do it.

"I guess the Key Sound doesn't allow multiple ejaculations?

Can it be done during intercourse or is it more difficult?"

Unlike women, it still involves some effort and talent, right? In other words, you have to "get the Key Sound right" or it won't work, correct? I suppose some men are better at it than others, whereas this ability comes naturally to women. It still doesn't get to the "root cause" of male sexual dysfunction: The refractory period.

Funny you mention the drug Ecstasy because I believe that is the future of male sexology, except most sex researchers don't believe we should eliminate the refractory period. Not much interest in male pleasure among sexologists. (A sort of vengeful backlash after centuries of male repression of female sexuality: Now you deserve to muddle in mediocrity or worse...).

Sounds like an infomercial. Do you have a stake in the enterprise? (Just asking for disclosure's sake).  If it REALLY works, why not have it tested in a laboratory to quell doubters such as myself??

 
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PanDragon
 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 8:26 PM               
 

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"I've come across Johnston's site in the past but it sounds too New Agey unbelievable"

  I don't blame you. I thought the same thing. All I can tell you is it works as long as you practice it correctly, which really isn't hard when you take the time to read the instructions. It requires far less physical effort than, oh say PC exercises.

  I do have a working theory in progress regarding the physiology of the Key Sound. It mostly centers around the idea that it causes an indirect stimulation of the Amygdalae (organs in the brain), which in turn share neuropathways with the septal regions (the areas most directly associated with orgasm).

  "as I recall it was pretty expensive"

  Um, it was $19.95 until about 5 months ago. That's the full instructions both in audio and written format, plus unlimited free advice, ability to ask questions, and live online coaching. Recently Jack finally changed it to $29.95 (after more than a decade). Compare that to the video prices at any Tantra site, and they don't back up their claims with personal assistance. If you find a better deal than that, I'd love to hear about it.

  "I guess the Key Sound doesn't allow multiple ejaculations?"

  Well it certainly doesn't prevent them! Again, KSMO is not based on controling the ejaculation process. It's based on arousal. You're free to ejaculate whenever you wish. The idea is to enjoy all the orgasms you want and then choose whether you wish to ejaculate once you feel fully satisfied. But I want to be clear here, this is not the same as PC control methods that claim you have a "choice" but require you to feel like you're holding back a damn that's about burst the whole time.

  With regard to KSMO, when I say you have a choice, I mean you literally will have no urge to ejaculate unless you decide to "switch gears" and stop using the Key Sound to re-direct your sexual energy. When you do that, your urge to ejaculate will begin building as per usual. But if you decide, for whatever reason, you'd prefer not to finish with ejaculation, you can simply stop there. And since you never started the "building up" phase of ejaculatory preparation, you won't have to worry about "blue balls" or feeling "backed up."

 Again, the difference between KSMO and nearly everything else is relying on extreme arousal to allow orgasms to occur spontaneously versus manipulating your genitals into performing for you. It's a completely different approach with completely different results.

"Can it be done during intercourse or is it more difficult?"

  Actually, it is without a doubt the easiest MMO method to apply during interocurse. At least for me anyway. The reason is, again, you're learning how to relax no matter how good you feel without developing that typical buidling urge to ejaculate. If you learn it properly and apply it correctly, you simply feel as good as you feel. You're never diverting your attention away from your feelings or your partner's. You're not busy trying to squeeze the right muscle at the right time.

  The trick is to begin slowly and use the technique to re-direct your energy from the moment you begin to feel any pleasure. It's like a fork in the road, you take the right path in the beginning and it's smooth sailing from there. So, instead of having to ask your partenr to slow down in the middle of a highly passionate moment, all you really need to ask them is to go a little slower with you during the foreplay and insertion phases (and how many women would complain about THAT?).

  And that actually brings me to another major difference between the old school PC techniques and KSMO. Most methods have you stimulate however you wish in the beginning and then want to you exert superhuman control and willpower right at the most difficult point. KSMO is directly opposite of that approach. Instead of trying to hold back the damn once it's about you burst, you learn how "re-direct the waters" from the very start, when they're easy to manage. If you set the stage for high arousal ahead of time, you're free to enjoy it when things get really heated! Thus, no stress, no distractions, no holding back.

"Unlike women, it still involves some effort and talent, right? In other words, you have to "get the Key Sound right" or it won't work, correct?"

  Well, of course! That's why it's called the KEY sound. But, compared to all the effort I spent on other techniques, physically KSMO is far easier to learn than most. Ironically, far more guys have difficulty with the emotional experience of opening up to new pleasures than they do with the physical technique. At the website, we call that "Terror at the Gates." It's a tendency some people to have to kind of "freeze up" in the face of being overwhelmed by the sensations of your own body.

  Again, this is because you're sort of "handing the controls" back over to your body. As long as you feel sufficiently aroused, your body triggers the orgasms for you, and many times, without much warning. That can be a little scary for some folks. It's like the first drop on a roller coaster, some people like to throw up their hands and "go with it," others close their eyes and clutch the "oh shit" handle! Intense orgasmic states bring on an almost identical "dividing line" in people. But with KSMO, folks can learn to let go and enjoy the ride.

 It's a far cry from PC control in that regard, because with PC's you're trying to "make it happen," by sheer will and muscular force, a concept men generally feel more comfortable with. The problem with that is, "you get what you pay for" as they say. By treating your genitals like a dog learning tricks, you only get the basic responses "shake, roll over, play dead," etc. But when you relinquish control and trust your body to do what it wants in moments of extreme arousal, the "tricks" are far, FAR more impressive!

 "this ability comes naturally to women."

  I used to think the same way, but that's a generalization. Your wife, my wife, and a lot of old girlfriends of mine fit that profile. But statistics show consistently every year that at least a third of all adult women have never even had an orgasm. At least not with a partner. Yes, the natural potential is there, but not always the talent, the desire, or the emotional stability that allows for such pleasure to be felt and expressed. I suggest avoiding the "all women" outlook, it's not accurate or particularly healthy. Believe me, I speak from experience.

"It still doesn't get to the "root cause" of male sexual dysfunction: The refractory period."

  I disagree. That's only true if you still believe that orgasms are dependent on the ejaculatory procress. Did you happen to read this article I posted above?  http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/sex.html

  Besides, MRP isn't a dysfunction, it's a natural process. The only dysfunction is in our ability to feel satisfied. If you feel sexually satisfied, there's no dysfunction.

  Anyway, I've experienced multiple ejaculations many times in the past. What no one ever seems to mention is it's a very messy process. It doesn't work with a condom. And even without one, have you ever ejaculated more than once inside a woman? It's ruins the experience. If you just keep "pounding away" after that, it creates a frothy mess that eventually kills the sensations for both of you. If you stop to clean up repeatedly, it ruins the mood. The only real use of multiple ejaculations is oral sex or if you're masturbating and have plenty of clean up material at hand. Even then, I still feel much better with KSMO because it keeps coming back to arousal, not ejaculation.

  The funny thing is, if you ejaculate in a high arousal state, it feels way better than "normal," anyway and your experience of MRP is greatly reduced if not non-existant (depending on how aroused you are). So it still makes sense to learn how to increase your arousal, if only to enhance your ejaculatory orgasms at the end. They'll last much longer and could potentially allow you more than one. Not to mention, it's a frequently reported experience among KSMO practitoners that they DO continue to enjoy orgasms after they ejaculate, just not usually with fluid expulsion. Again, it's all about the arousal levels. If you're truly, extremely aroused it can "overlap," your MRP, at least for awhile...

  "Funny you mention the drug Ecstasy because I believe that is the future of male sexology, except most sex researchers don't believe we should eliminate the refractory period."

  Well, unfortunately I agree that drugs are most likely where the masses will go to get pleasure in the near future. But I think it's sad when the same results are available naturally.

"Not much interest in male pleasure among sexologists. (A sort of vengeful backlash after centuries of male repression of female sexuality: Now you deserve to muddle in mediocrity or worse...)."

  I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU THERE. I'm glad you said it, cause I believe it's an issue that needs to be addressed far more often. Why else would I spend so much of my time around forums like this? In fact, not to knock Tantra, I know it has many wonderful things to offer, but even those ancient systems often failed (continue to fail) to acknowledge that men might want more than "power and control" in terms of their sexual experience.

  "Sounds like an infomercial."

  Well you're not the first person to say so! LOL. Honestly I don't know how to else to explain things like this without sounding like one. And to be frank, when you started this thread, you said so many things that I used to say, I felt obligated to show you it's not a lost cause. You could say I'm trying (pretty hard actually) to sell you HOPE more than anything. But trust your own instincts. Like I said, I've been screwed by false techniques too. All I can say is check out Jack's website and read what others have to say. 

 "Do you have a stake in the enterprise? (Just asking for disclosure's sake)."

  A totally fair question. The answer is, yeah kinda. I've been an affiliate member of Jack's website for about a year now (But I've been a volunteer coach there for almost 5). I get 15% of every purchase resulting from a click on the KSMO links when I post here. So far it's added up to roughly $10-30 a month. Hardly a major incentive. I've been posting in forums like these about KSMO for years, I just recently decided it would be fair to get some material compensation for it. Then again, this is the only forum I post in that allows affiliate links, so there ya go. Everywhere else I do it is purely an altruistic endevour.

  "If it REALLY works, why not have it tested in a laboratory to quell doubters such as myself??"

  Ya know, that comes up a LOT at Jack's website and he always says the same thing: "Know anyone who writes grants?"

  I can tell you this, those studies cost lot of money and I know Jack doesn't have that much. Believe it or not, he's not in it for the money. He just wants to make a living. I actually tried to offer myself up for a study to the guy at multiorgasmic.com. He never responded to that request.

 See, it's not like you can just walk up to the Kinsey Institute and say, "we've got this technique that will totally disprove everything you've been telling people for the past 30 years, care to pay for a study so we can prove it?"

  You said it yourself (and so have I in the past) it sounds too good to be true. So how do you get people to take it seriously enough to pay for the testing? What we DO have is a fellow practitoner who happens to be a Pediatric Pulomonary Cardiologist and he knows people in the field of psychiatry who are interested in how KSMO may work on a neurological level. So we're hoping for any kind of emperical studies that may come from that. I've already volunteered to be first in line.

  : - )




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Message edited by: PanDragon on 10/18/2004 18:44:26[Server Time/GMT -8 Pacific Time]

 
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J.B.
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 8:54 PM           
 

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OK, let's say this thing works after several weeks of practice. The following Amazon review scared the bejesus out of me and the neighbors (or my children) would probably call 911:

This isn't for quiet people. Be prepared to try new things., October 7, 2003
Reviewer: A reader
Oh, wow! Let me begin by saying you must be *VERY* open-minded when trying the techniques in this seminar. They teach you how to have an orgasm out of your mouth instead of out your penis. As anyone reading this should already know, the typical male orgasm happens in the form of an ejaculation. Well, this seminar teaches you that instead of ejaculating, your orgasm can be in the form of roaring. The author compares it to the roar of a lion and that's what you should sound like during your orgasm. In fact, he says you'll roar so loud that you'll want to be certain your mouth is nowhere near your partner's (lover's or spouse's) ear because you can injure them. Then he explains you'll need to practice getting your mouth turned away from the person you make love to because the roars will be so intense.

I bought this seminar because six different people rated it at 5 stars and wrote fascinating reviews, however I can't understand why I'm the first one to mention anything about roaring your orgasm. If any of them had mentioned roaring or lions, then I wouldn't have bought it. I know some of the reviews mentioned key sounds, but roaring? That's just a bit too extreme for me.

In general, do consider myself open-minded, but this is something that my girlfriend and I just couldn't do. Simply put, I wanted to learn how to become multi-orgasmic sans PC techniques. While the techniques in this seminar don't require your PC muscle, they apparently have worked for other people, but I guess I wasn't cut out for them.

If you and your partner are open-minded for new sexual techniques, then this may work for you. The seminar does explain that you can do these alone, but if I did any of these things without telling my girlfriend first, she'd find a priest to perform an exorcism on me as soon as her ears stopped ringing from all my roaring. The reason you and your partner are both supposed to know of these techniques is because when you roar, they are supposed to inhale your roar and then roar it back out to you so you can inhale it, and then you roar it back to them again. All the while doing this, waves of pleasure are supposed to emanate throughout your entire body thus giving you a full-body orgasm rather than a genital orgasm we're all accustomed to.

Please don't assume I'm making a mockery of the information in the seminar. I bought it two weeks ago and have listened to it five times: once in bed, twice while working on the computer, once in the car, and a final time with no distractions - just me sitting home alone quietly in my office with the lights turned down. I practiced the roaring and the breathing each time, and put forth what I feel to be an honest effort, but like I said I don't think I'm cut out for this.

Would I recommend this to anyone? Probably not, especially if they have children in the house, thin walls that the neighbors can hear through, or a fear of caged animals. I definitely wouldn't recommend it if you're the type of guy who brings home a new sex partner every weekend because I'm sure you'll scare the holy crap out of them once you start roaring. That's why I gave it one star. I just wish some of the other reviewers could have mentioned a bit more about what this seminar was really about rather than what they got out of it because I'm 100% certain I'm not the only man in the world who feels the way I do about roaring like a lion during orgasm.

J.B.: The "Key Sound" sounds like a chime, NOT A ROAAAAR!!!


 
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PanDragon
 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 11:10 PM               
 

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  As long as we're using Amazon as an example let's take a look at the whole picture shall we?

  Here's the link to ALL the reviews of KSMO: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1882899067/ref=cm_rev_prev/002-9639714-5456040?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=283155&customer-reviews.start=1&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

  As anyone can see, there are 14 reviews, 12 of them gave the product 5 stars out of 5. For an average of 4.5 stars. You picked one of only 2 negative reviews. I just want that out for the record. I'm still glad you brought it up though...

  Because it just so happens that the guy who wrote that review later e-mailed Jack and apologized for misjudging the technique. Like a lot of guys, he bought the seminar, gave it a quick, unattentive listen, you know a "get to the good part!" kinda attitude. And he misunderstood both what Jack was saying in general and more importantly, the instructions.

  He then proceeded to jump into (incorrect) practice, and failed to even visit the website once for further assistance. So, of course, he didn't get the results he wanted, became frustrated and then took it out on the technique in his review.

  A few months later, Jack got an e-mail from him saying how he decided to listen to seminar again and realized where he hadn't been paying attention, and actually ended up having multiples when he did it the correct way. Unfortunately, Amazon refused his request to delete his previous review and write a new one.

  I don't know if I can maybe get that guy to come here and talk about it or post the email correspondance between him and Jack to prove this. But regardless, I think the rest of the reviews speak for themselves.

  Anyway, I'll get to the places where he misunderstood:

  "They teach you how to have an orgasm out of your mouth instead of out your penis."

  NOT TRUE. KSMO teaches you how to express yourself and enhance your arousal. The orgasms are most definitely still happening in your penis, and potentially the rest of your body.

"Well, this seminar teaches you that instead of ejaculating, your orgasm can be in the form of roaring. The author compares it to the roar of a lion and that's what you should sound like during your orgasm."

  NOT EVEN CLOSE. Jack explains in the seminar how he discovered the technique. He remembered watching lions roar at a zoo and watched  their abdomens as they made the sound. He noticed that the abdominal muscles expanded and made certain motions in connection to the roar. So he explored ways to simulate those movements with sound. The results were surprisingly orgasmic and so he continue to investigated the phenomina. Eventually developing the Key Sound.

  HOWEVER he never says to "roar." The Key Sound is NOT an imitation of wildlife. It was inspired by wildlife. It's a very simple (and quite human) sound that actually is just as effective when made quietly (almost whisper level) as it is loud. The effectiveness is not reliant on volume, it's on proper expression.

 I have lived in 3 small apartments since I learned the KSMO, I've even practiced with my wife asleep in the next room. I have never woken her (or anyone else) in 5 years. But it is worth noting that yes, you may feel naturally moved to make the sound louder as you become more aroused. It's helpful to be able to be as loud as feels right in a session, but not absolutely necessary.

  If anything, the most volume is likely to come the sounds you will make in response to the Key Sound and the pleasure it brings. And by his, I mean moaning, groaning, even potentially screaming in pleasure. Not unlike a woman might during really good intercouse (but in a deeper, more manly kinda way, of course!).

  The one important thing to remember is that it's completely inappropriate to practice this technique within ear shot of children or unconsenting adults. It is a sexual act after all. So if you have kids in the house, be careful to ensure absolute privacy for their sake. Other than that, if the neighbors have never heard your wife, chances are they won't hear you either.

  "In fact, he says you'll roar so loud that you'll want to be certain your mouth is nowhere near your partner's (lover's or spouse's) ear because you can injure them. Then he explains you'll need to practice getting your mouth turned away from the person you make love to because the roars will be so intense."

  Yes, Jack does include a warning to this effect. But not because you will necessarily ever be that loud, it's simply a precaution because he doesn't want to get sued! I screamed at the top of my lungs many times in this practice, I never hurt my wife's ears or had to consciously turn away for her protection. I never heard of anyone making a complaint of this type.

  "I can't understand why I'm the first one to mention anything about roaring your orgasm."

  Simple- because he was the only one who misunderstood that part of the seminar!

 "The reason you and your partner are both supposed to know of these techniques is because when you roar, they are supposed to inhale your roar and then roar it back out to you so you can inhale it, and then you roar it back to them again."

  Again, no roaring invlolved here. But also, he's misleading here. Jack describes how there can be an exchange of this sexual pleasure between partners that is expressed in taking turns with the Key Sound. It's absolutely true. So much so that you can eventually feel their orgasms as if they were your own! But the "taking turns" isn't really necessary to accomplish this.

  As for the breathing, yes it's a common practice in many tradtional systems like Tantra to "breathe in" your lovers pleasure, especially as they express it fully. This is simply another example of that. It's not essential to practice, but merely an available (and worth while) option.

  "All the while doing this, waves of pleasure are supposed to emanate throughout your entire body thus giving you a full-body orgasm rather than a genital orgasm we're all accustomed to."

  PRECISELY! If you are doing it correctly that is...

  "I bought it two weeks ago and have listened to it five times"

  If that's true, he really doesn't know how to listen.

  "J.B.: The "Key Sound" sounds like a chime, NOT A ROAAAAR!!!"

Oh come on man, be fair. Did you even read the other reviews or just look for the only two that sucked? When you present this review as accurate and leave the others out, you're doing a disservice to people. At least give the whole picture.

 This was one guy who didn't pay attention to instructions or ask for clarification at the website. The other folks DID. THAT's why their reviews are positive and his is negative. It's not because he knows something they don't. It's clearly the other way around!
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J.B.
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  Date Posted: 10/17/2004 7:51 PM            
 

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The entry "True Multiorgasmic Response" didn't elaborate on a key problem:

Men can learn to have mini-orgasms (my nonejaculatory orgasms are 70% strength) but it involves

a) "holding back"

b) not easily transferred to intercourse.

c) men practicing so-called MMO techniques (myself included) get bored because you can't really let go during love-making, like my wife; instead, we have to "hold back" at a low plateau so as to not "blip" over during intercourse. My wife, on the other hand, can have real, no-holds-barred MMOs clitorally and vaginally. She is in her late 30s and hitting her prime: orgasms pile upon orgasm WITHOUT EFFORT and sometimes blend together so that she either a) loses consciousness of everything but the pleasure reverbrating through her entire body; or b) imagines flames of pleasure emanating from her clit to the rest of her. FURTHERMORE, female orgasms at mid-life are as strong as they were as a teen because the only way to "exercise" the love muscles is through involuntary orgasmic contractions (true MMOs). I work out religiously and every muscle in my body is in tip-top shape, but because I am not truly MMO, my orgasms have become weaker over time so that occassionally I ejaculate and feel NOTHING at all. I like to say that a man has one orgasm at a time as a teenager; by the time he is 40, he has 1/5th or 1/10th of an orgasm (notice how far your ejaculate shoots at 40 compared to 18--mine just dribbles out and I am in excellent shape).

So, in a word, I've become depressed and bored with this gender gap. It's a lot of work for the middle-aged male to keep his woman satisfied while she keeps "coming and coming" (not every time but often enough to make one green with Venus envy).

God must be a woman, or hate men (notice that Jesus, if you believe he is the Son of God, always took the woman's point of view. Lusting in your heart during masturbation--more common among men--is equivalent to adultery. WWJD: Castration ("if your hand is your problem, cut it off....")!

Is anyone else depressed by this gaping gender gap. My wife complains that she gets so much pleasure and I get so little but I tell her that is the fate of men, we are the "inferior sex," as biologists remind us.

 
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  Date Posted: 10/17/2004 7:53 PM            
 

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P.S.: Women have more erogenous zones too. Some women can "think off." After 20 orgasms or more (she loses count), if I run my finger down my wife's back, she has "backgasms"--real orgasms from the stroking!

 
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PanDragon
 
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  Date Posted: 10/17/2004 11:32 PM                
 

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    Hey J.B.,

  I already replied briefly to your post in "Biochemistry and orgasms," and then I saw your new post here.

  First off, let me just say YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I completely identify with the frustration you're expressing here. I first started trying become multi-orgasmic when I was 18. I didn't accomplish my goal until I was 26. It was a long, hard road to find my own personal satisfaction. But I DID find it. And I believe you can too.

  The difference between how I feel now and I felt back then is like night and day. Believe it or not, I can still remember clearly one night with my high schoool girlfriend, she was having these amazing orgasms and said "you have no idea how good this feels!" I got so depressed, I actually started to cry! How pathetic is that? But that's how "screwed" I felt being a guy. Thinking I'd never feel what she felt. It was horrible.

  But I promise you, things are simply NOT the way they seem. I know, I know you probably feel like you've "tried everything and nothing works," right? Well, I know what you mean, man. I've been there. I bought all the books and video's, Mantak Chia, Margo Anand, Keesling, etc. None of them worked for me, and they are collecting dust on my bookshelf as we speak.

  But allow me to explain a couple very important reasons why those techniques rarely work:

  First and foremost, nearly all MMO techniques today, whether they are based on science or ancient traditions like Tantra, are almost exlusively focused on the differences between men and women. They tend to treat men in a very limited, mechanical way, while women get all goodies!

  How many Tantra sites have you been to that have products for men with words like "control," "power," and "potency" in the titles? While products for women have words like "freeing the female orgasm," "expanding your pleasure," "The Super-O," etc, etc?

  This is a fatal flaw when approaching a subject like pleasure. We, as men and women, are NOT simply the sum of our "parts." We have minds and hearts, and more importantly, we have brains! After all, whether you are male or female, young or old, orgasm occurs in your brain, NOT in your genitals. The trick is in learning the best ways to make use of that fact. The best ways to encourage your brain to trigger orgasmic pleasure without sending signals to your genitals that it's time to "pop."

  What's the best way to do that? Simple - arousal. And by arousal, I mean the experience of pleasure, the feeling of being turned on, not just the physiological event of erection. Any truly accomplished MMO practitioner will tell you, when you are experiencing extrememly high levels of arousal for extended periods of time, your body, and more specifically, your brain, will trigger orgasms automatically, and repeatedly as long as you remain highly aroused. Why does your wife experience those "back-gasms?" not because she's female, but because she is in a high state of arousal. And guess what? You can be too!

  So why do men so rarely achieve this level of arousal? Well you said it yourself, because they tend to hold back. They think they have to hold back. But that's the real myth of male sexuality! And unfortunately, that myth has been perpetuated by virutally everyone from Tantra guru's who teach PC control as *the* way to last longer, to the typical guy on the street who "thinks about batting averages" to avoid being present during the act of sex. But again, this only serves to avoid becoming fully aroused. So they may last longer, but they feel less.

  Now here's the cool part. There's a way to "have your cake and eat it too." You CAN last as long as you want AND be fully present, fully aroused, and indeed fully orgasmic throughout your sexual encounters without ANY need to hold back, distract yourself or squeezes certain muscles at just the right time. You, and just about any man, can learn how to truly LET GO and fully enjoy all the pleasure (and orgasms) you want, without EVER even approaching your Point of No Return.

 How is this possible? It's called KSMO or Key Sound Multiple Orgasm. It's one of only a handful of MMO techniques that don't rely on ejaculation control, but instead on learning how to relax into pleasure, enjoy it fully, and increase your level of arousal to incredibly high levels. The trick is not in trying to "control" your ejaculation, which to me is like trying to control a tiger with a whip and a chair! LOL! Instead you learn how to control your stimulation while you continue to become more and more aroused.

  You see, ejaculation is triggered purely by physical stimulation, not arousal, and not pleasure either. When you learn how to become fully and deeply aroused with just a little bit of stimulation, you can feel pleasure to an extent that is truly orgasmic (not "mini orgasms," I'm talking about REAL ORGASMS, even more pleasurable over more of your body and far longer lasting than ejaculations) without sending signals to your body that it's time to prepare for ejaculation. That way, you're not fighting your own body anymore. And better yet, once you're able to relax into this kind of pleasure, the urge to ejaculate simply fades away unless you decide you want to, in which case all you have to do is stop using the technique and nature will take it's course!

 With KSMO, you're not "holding back" because nothing is trying to "get out." You're simply enhancing your ability to feel intense pleasure without encouraging your body to "start building" towards ejaculation. That way you're not limiting your experience of pleasure. And when you no longer have a limit on how much pleasure you allow yourself to feel, your brain will eventually trigger waves of orgasmic pleasure for you.

  The result is complete and total sexual freedom. You are able to enjoy all the pleasure and orgasms you want without having to "do" anything to "make it happen." It simply happens for you. You don't have to worry about "going over the edge" or feeling "too good" because as long as you follow the technique properly, you won't be doing the things that lead to ejaculation. Using this technique, you simply bypass the urge to ejaculate all together! That means no matter how good your partner feels, or how stimulated you feel, you can completely let go into the experience and FEEL everything without hesitation or worrying about "control."

  Well, now as if you weren't already thinking this is too good to be true, check this out: Your ability to enjoy orgasmic pleasure is NOT dependent upon your age! Again, the thing to remember is that your genitals are not the source of your pleasure. Your brain decides how good you feel.

 If you don't believe me, ask anyone who has ever had sex on the drug Ecstasy (MDMA), how good they felt and if they thought they could feel that good without the drug. Chances are they'll say they can't imagine "regular sex" ever being as good as it was on Ecstasy. Why? Because the drug affected their brain, causing it to release far more endorhpins than usual. But the little known secret is, there is a trick to get those same results without the drugs. The trick is simply to become extremely aroused.

  Now Tantra and Taoist methods have all kinds of long, complicated meditations and exercises to help you accomplish this. KSMO uses a much simpler approach - the Key Sound. I'll spare you a lengthy explaination of the Key Sound except to say that it teaches you how to amplify and expand your arousal to incredible levels, regardless of your age or gender! I actually know guys in their 70's and 80's with NO prior experience with MMO techniques who have learned KSMO successfully and become fully multi-orgasmic within just a few months!

  Again, the key to true orgasmic pleasure is simple - free your brain and your body will follow. It doesn't matter how much "juice" you've got or how far you can squirt it, it doesn't matter how strong your PC muscles are (I never do those exercises) your brain decides how good you will feel from moment to moment. And again, the key to making your brain make you feel good is arousal.

  Now, I realize I've typed half a book here (sorry), but I hope you'll bare with me for just one more interesting tid-bit:

  Regarding what you said here: "P.S.: Women have more erogenous zones too. Some women can "think off." After 20 orgasms or more (she loses count), if I run my finger down my wife's back, she has "backgasms"--real orgasms from the stroking!"

  It's funny you mentioned it, because guess what? With KSMO, I've had experiences virtually identical to what you described. Check this out, I actually wrote this post back in March of this year at the KSMO forum under the name "Pan": http://chat.jackjohnstonseminars.com/wb/Default.asp?action=9&read=1210&fid=114#3641

  In it I describe a better than average, but still not atypical KSMO lovemaking session with my wife, in which we both reached a state of continuing orgasmic pleasure to a point where when she stroked my back, *I* had orgasms in my back from the touch of her fingers! Again, this is intense arousal at work.

  And about that ability that supposedly only women have to "think off," well guess what? That's right, I've learned how to have orgasms just by "thinking" orgasmic thoughts and using a technique called, "Amygdala Clicking." No special breathing techniques and no physical stimulation required whatsoever. You can literally give yourself orgasms without "doing" anything. And I know more than one man who has done the same. You can read more about it here:  http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/sex.html

 

  Rest assured that women do not have a monopoloy on full-body orgasms. It is a HUMAN experience and purely based on arousal, not genitals. Genitals are wonderful. God knows I love mine! But they are not *you* they are part of you. Likewise, they are not your orgasms, they are part of your orgasms.

  So, please keep in mind that although you may be aging, your ability to enjoy more pleasure, even more pleasure than ever before, is as healthy as the day you were born. It's all in your brain! You just need to learn the right ways to access it and that takes practice, patience, and a positive, open, and self-accepting heart and mind. Let go of the past and consider what as yet undiscovered options lay before you. You never know what you might accomplish with a new perspective and the right technique!

  PHEW! Ok, pardon the oh-so-wordy reply. But I remember feeling just like you, I thought God was punishing me with a lifetime sentence of one-shot orgasms too. I want you to know that's NOT TRUE! Us guys have just been screwed all these years in terms of culture and information, not physiology. I've never been happeir to be a man, and I hope the same for you.

  Best of Luck!    : - )

  P.S. For more information about KSMO go here:http://www.multiples.com/pan.html

  Consider reading some of the posts (I recommend the Success Stories), maybe a Chat Archive or two, you'll find a lot of guys who felt the same way you do (and I'm one of them), who now feel a whole lot better!

  

    




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If ya wanna ride those waves, you better wax your board!
 

Message edited by: PanDragon on 10/17/2004 21:55:40[Server Time/GMT -8 Pacific Time]

 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 3:52 AM                
 

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  Just wanted to add one final comment on KSMO:

  If you, or anyone else reading this, decide you want to learn KSMO, whatever you do, please make sure you take advantage of all the free assistance that's available at the website. Download the free pdf file which includes extra tips for success and helps to clarify the instructions. Read posts in the forum, post questions to the KSMO community (that's what we're there for), and try to attend at least one or two live coaching chats so you can get assistance straight from the guy who created the system.

  I know, as guys it's sometimes hard to be humble and admit we don't know everything about sex. Most of us just want to figure things out on our own. But after almost 5 years as a volunteer coach at the website, I can assure you, the guys who learn to have multiples the fastest, are the ones who ask questions and admit when they're feeling stuck here and there in their practice.

  So if you really want to be successful, take advantage of everything that's there to help you find success.

    




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If ya wanna ride those waves, you better wax your board!
 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 4:45 PM            
 

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"Well, it sounds too good to be true." I am a guy, I'm not humble--I've read everything and anything for the past ten years on the subject, including esoteric articles in places like _Archives of Sexual Behavior_. I've come across Johnston's site in the past but it sounds too New Agey unbelievable and as I recall it was pretty expensive. I will, however, check it out to see if one more trick won't do it.

"I guess the Key Sound doesn't allow multiple ejaculations?

Can it be done during intercourse or is it more difficult?"

Unlike women, it still involves some effort and talent, right? In other words, you have to "get the Key Sound right" or it won't work, correct? I suppose some men are better at it than others, whereas this ability comes naturally to women. It still doesn't get to the "root cause" of male sexual dysfunction: The refractory period.

Funny you mention the drug Ecstasy because I believe that is the future of male sexology, except most sex researchers don't believe we should eliminate the refractory period. Not much interest in male pleasure among sexologists. (A sort of vengeful backlash after centuries of male repression of female sexuality: Now you deserve to muddle in mediocrity or worse...).

Sounds like an infomercial. Do you have a stake in the enterprise? (Just asking for disclosure's sake).  If it REALLY works, why not have it tested in a laboratory to quell doubters such as myself??

 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 8:26 PM                
 

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"I've come across Johnston's site in the past but it sounds too New Agey unbelievable"

  I don't blame you. I thought the same thing. All I can tell you is it works as long as you practice it correctly, which really isn't hard when you take the time to read the instructions. It requires far less physical effort than, oh say PC exercises.

  I do have a working theory in progress regarding the physiology of the Key Sound. It mostly centers around the idea that it causes an indirect stimulation of the Amygdalae (organs in the brain), which in turn share neuropathways with the septal regions (the areas most directly associated with orgasm).

  "as I recall it was pretty expensive"

  Um, it was $19.95 until about 5 months ago. That's the full instructions both in audio and written format, plus unlimited free advice, ability to ask questions, and live online coaching. Recently Jack finally changed it to $29.95 (after more than a decade). Compare that to the video prices at any Tantra site, and they don't back up their claims with personal assistance. If you find a better deal than that, I'd love to hear about it.

  "I guess the Key Sound doesn't allow multiple ejaculations?"

  Well it certainly doesn't prevent them! Again, KSMO is not based on controling the ejaculation process. It's based on arousal. You're free to ejaculate whenever you wish. The idea is to enjoy all the orgasms you want and then choose whether you wish to ejaculate once you feel fully satisfied. But I want to be clear here, this is not the same as PC control methods that claim you have a "choice" but require you to feel like you're holding back a damn that's about burst the whole time.

  With regard to KSMO, when I say you have a choice, I mean you literally will have no urge to ejaculate unless you decide to "switch gears" and stop using the Key Sound to re-direct your sexual energy. When you do that, your urge to ejaculate will begin building as per usual. But if you decide, for whatever reason, you'd prefer not to finish with ejaculation, you can simply stop there. And since you never started the "building up" phase of ejaculatory preparation, you won't have to worry about "blue balls" or feeling "backed up."

 Again, the difference between KSMO and nearly everything else is relying on extreme arousal to allow orgasms to occur spontaneously versus manipulating your genitals into performing for you. It's a completely different approach with completely different results.

"Can it be done during intercourse or is it more difficult?"

  Actually, it is without a doubt the easiest MMO method to apply during interocurse. At least for me anyway. The reason is, again, you're learning how to relax no matter how good you feel without developing that typical buidling urge to ejaculate. If you learn it properly and apply it correctly, you simply feel as good as you feel. You're never diverting your attention away from your feelings or your partner's. You're not busy trying to squeeze the right muscle at the right time.

  The trick is to begin slowly and use the technique to re-direct your energy from the moment you begin to feel any pleasure. It's like a fork in the road, you take the right path in the beginning and it's smooth sailing from there. So, instead of having to ask your partenr to slow down in the middle of a highly passionate moment, all you really need to ask them is to go a little slower with you during the foreplay and insertion phases (and how many women would complain about THAT?).

  And that actually brings me to another major difference between the old school PC techniques and KSMO. Most methods have you stimulate however you wish in the beginning and then want to you exert superhuman control and willpower right at the most difficult point. KSMO is directly opposite of that approach. Instead of trying to hold back the damn once it's about you burst, you learn how "re-direct the waters" from the very start, when they're easy to manage. If you set the stage for high arousal ahead of time, you're free to enjoy it when things get really heated! Thus, no stress, no distractions, no holding back.

"Unlike women, it still involves some effort and talent, right? In other words, you have to "get the Key Sound right" or it won't work, correct?"

  Well, of course! That's why it's called the KEY sound. But, compared to all the effort I spent on other techniques, physically KSMO is far easier to learn than most. Ironically, far more guys have difficulty with the emotional experience of opening up to new pleasures than they do with the physical technique. At the website, we call that "Terror at the Gates." It's a tendency some people to have to kind of "freeze up" in the face of being overwhelmed by the sensations of your own body.

  Again, this is because you're sort of "handing the controls" back over to your body. As long as you feel sufficiently aroused, your body triggers the orgasms for you, and many times, without much warning. That can be a little scary for some folks. It's like the first drop on a roller coaster, some people like to throw up their hands and "go with it," others close their eyes and clutch the "oh shit" handle! Intense orgasmic states bring on an almost identical "dividing line" in people. But with KSMO, folks can learn to let go and enjoy the ride.

 It's a far cry from PC control in that regard, because with PC's you're trying to "make it happen," by sheer will and muscular force, a concept men generally feel more comfortable with. The problem with that is, "you get what you pay for" as they say. By treating your genitals like a dog learning tricks, you only get the basic responses "shake, roll over, play dead," etc. But when you relinquish control and trust your body to do what it wants in moments of extreme arousal, the "tricks" are far, FAR more impressive!

 "this ability comes naturally to women."

  I used to think the same way, but that's a generalization. Your wife, my wife, and a lot of old girlfriends of mine fit that profile. But statistics show consistently every year that at least a third of all adult women have never even had an orgasm. At least not with a partner. Yes, the natural potential is there, but not always the talent, the desire, or the emotional stability that allows for such pleasure to be felt and expressed. I suggest avoiding the "all women" outlook, it's not accurate or particularly healthy. Believe me, I speak from experience.

"It still doesn't get to the "root cause" of male sexual dysfunction: The refractory period."

  I disagree. That's only true if you still believe that orgasms are dependent on the ejaculatory procress. Did you happen to read this article I posted above?  http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/sex.html

  Besides, MRP isn't a dysfunction, it's a natural process. The only dysfunction is in our ability to feel satisfied. If you feel sexually satisfied, there's no dysfunction.

  Anyway, I've experienced multiple ejaculations many times in the past. What no one ever seems to mention is it's a very messy process. It doesn't work with a condom. And even without one, have you ever ejaculated more than once inside a woman? It's ruins the experience. If you just keep "pounding away" after that, it creates a frothy mess that eventually kills the sensations for both of you. If you stop to clean up repeatedly, it ruins the mood. The only real use of multiple ejaculations is oral sex or if you're masturbating and have plenty of clean up material at hand. Even then, I still feel much better with KSMO because it keeps coming back to arousal, not ejaculation.

  The funny thing is, if you ejaculate in a high arousal state, it feels way better than "normal," anyway and your experience of MRP is greatly reduced if not non-existant (depending on how aroused you are). So it still makes sense to learn how to increase your arousal, if only to enhance your ejaculatory orgasms at the end. They'll last much longer and could potentially allow you more than one. Not to mention, it's a frequently reported experience among KSMO practitoners that they DO continue to enjoy orgasms after they ejaculate, just not usually with fluid expulsion. Again, it's all about the arousal levels. If you're truly, extremely aroused it can "overlap," your MRP, at least for awhile...

  "Funny you mention the drug Ecstasy because I believe that is the future of male sexology, except most sex researchers don't believe we should eliminate the refractory period."

  Well, unfortunately I agree that drugs are most likely where the masses will go to get pleasure in the near future. But I think it's sad when the same results are available naturally.

"Not much interest in male pleasure among sexologists. (A sort of vengeful backlash after centuries of male repression of female sexuality: Now you deserve to muddle in mediocrity or worse...)."

  I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU THERE. I'm glad you said it, cause I believe it's an issue that needs to be addressed far more often. Why else would I spend so much of my time around forums like this? In fact, not to knock Tantra, I know it has many wonderful things to offer, but even those ancient systems often failed (continue to fail) to acknowledge that men might want more than "power and control" in terms of their sexual experience.

  "Sounds like an infomercial."

  Well you're not the first person to say so! LOL. Honestly I don't know how to else to explain things like this without sounding like one. And to be frank, when you started this thread, you said so many things that I used to say, I felt obligated to show you it's not a lost cause. You could say I'm trying (pretty hard actually) to sell you HOPE more than anything. But trust your own instincts. Like I said, I've been screwed by false techniques too. All I can say is check out Jack's website and read what others have to say.  

 "Do you have a stake in the enterprise? (Just asking for disclosure's sake)."

  A totally fair question. The answer is, yeah kinda. I've been an affiliate member of Jack's website for about a year now (But I've been a volunteer coach there for almost 5). I get 15% of every purchase resulting from a click on the KSMO links when I post here. So far it's added up to roughly $10-30 a month. Hardly a major incentive. I've been posting in forums like these about KSMO for years, I just recently decided it would be fair to get some material compensation for it. Then again, this is the only forum I post in that allows affiliate links, so there ya go. Everywhere else I do it is purely an altruistic endevour.

  "If it REALLY works, why not have it tested in a laboratory to quell doubters such as myself??"

  Ya know, that comes up a LOT at Jack's website and he always says the same thing: "Know anyone who writes grants?"

  I can tell you this, those studies cost lot of money and I know Jack doesn't have that much. Believe it or not, he's not in it for the money. He just wants to make a living. I actually tried to offer myself up for a study to the guy at multiorgasmic.com. He never responded to that request.

 See, it's not like you can just walk up to the Kinsey Institute and say, "we've got this technique that will totally disprove everything you've been telling people for the past 30 years, care to pay for a study so we can prove it?"

  You said it yourself (and so have I in the past) it sounds too good to be true. So how do you get people to take it seriously enough to pay for the testing? What we DO have is a fellow practitoner who happens to be a Pediatric Pulomonary Cardiologist and he knows people in the field of psychiatry who are interested in how KSMO may work on a neurological level. So we're hoping for any kind of emperical studies that may come from that. I've already volunteered to be first in line.

  : - )




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If ya wanna ride those waves, you better wax your board!
 

Message edited by: PanDragon on 10/18/2004 18:44:26[Server Time/GMT -8 Pacific Time]

 
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J.B.
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 8:54 PM            
 

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OK, let's say this thing works after several weeks of practice. The following Amazon review scared the bejesus out of me and the neighbors (or my children) would probably call 911:

This isn't for quiet people. Be prepared to try new things., October 7, 2003
Reviewer: A reader
Oh, wow! Let me begin by saying you must be *VERY* open-minded when trying the techniques in this seminar. They teach you how to have an orgasm out of your mouth instead of out your penis. As anyone reading this should already know, the typical male orgasm happens in the form of an ejaculation. Well, this seminar teaches you that instead of ejaculating, your orgasm can be in the form of roaring. The author compares it to the roar of a lion and that's what you should sound like during your orgasm. In fact, he says you'll roar so loud that you'll want to be certain your mouth is nowhere near your partner's (lover's or spouse's) ear because you can injure them. Then he explains you'll need to practice getting your mouth turned away from the person you make love to because the roars will be so intense.

I bought this seminar because six different people rated it at 5 stars and wrote fascinating reviews, however I can't understand why I'm the first one to mention anything about roaring your orgasm. If any of them had mentioned roaring or lions, then I wouldn't have bought it. I know some of the reviews mentioned key sounds, but roaring? That's just a bit too extreme for me.

In general, do consider myself open-minded, but this is something that my girlfriend and I just couldn't do. Simply put, I wanted to learn how to become multi-orgasmic sans PC techniques. While the techniques in this seminar don't require your PC muscle, they apparently have worked for other people, but I guess I wasn't cut out for them.

If you and your partner are open-minded for new sexual techniques, then this may work for you. The seminar does explain that you can do these alone, but if I did any of these things without telling my girlfriend first, she'd find a priest to perform an exorcism on me as soon as her ears stopped ringing from all my roaring. The reason you and your partner are both supposed to know of these techniques is because when you roar, they are supposed to inhale your roar and then roar it back out to you so you can inhale it, and then you roar it back to them again. All the while doing this, waves of pleasure are supposed to emanate throughout your entire body thus giving you a full-body orgasm rather than a genital orgasm we're all accustomed to.

Please don't assume I'm making a mockery of the information in the seminar. I bought it two weeks ago and have listened to it five times: once in bed, twice while working on the computer, once in the car, and a final time with no distractions - just me sitting home alone quietly in my office with the led lighting turned down. I practiced the roaring and the breathing each time, and put forth what I feel to be an honest effort, but like I said I don't think I'm cut out for this.

Would I recommend this to anyone? Probably not, especially if they have children in the house, thin walls that the neighbors can hear through, or a fear of caged animals. I definitely wouldn't recommend it if you're the type of guy who brings home a new sex partner every weekend because I'm sure you'll scare the holy crap out of them once you start roaring. That's why I gave it one star. I just wish some of the other reviewers could have mentioned a bit more about what this seminar was really about rather than what they got out of it because I'm 100% certain I'm not the only man in the world who feels the way I do about roaring like a lion during orgasm.

J.B.: The "Key Sound" sounds like a chime, NOT A ROAAAAR!!!


 
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  Date Posted: 10/18/2004 11:10 PM                
 

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  As long as we're using Amazon as an example let's take a look at the whole picture shall we?

  Here's the link to ALL the reviews of KSMO: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1882899067/ref=cm_rev_prev/002-9639714-5456040?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=283155&customer-reviews.start=1&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

  As anyone can see, there are 14 reviews, 12 of them gave the product 5 stars out of 5. For an average of 4.5 stars. You picked one of only 2 negative reviews. I just want that out for the record. I'm still glad you brought it up though...

  Because it just so happens that the guy who wrote that review later e-mailed Jack and apologized for misjudging the technique. Like a lot of guys, he bought the seminar, gave it a quick, unattentive listen, you know a "get to the good part!" kinda attitude. And he misunderstood both what Jack was saying in general and more importantly, the instructions.

  He then proceeded to jump into (incorrect) practice, and failed to even visit the website once for further assistance. So, of course, he didn't get the results he wanted, became frustrated and then took it out on the technique in his review.

  A few months later, Jack got an e-mail from him saying how he decided to listen to seminar again and realized where he hadn't been paying attention, and actually ended up having multiples when he did it the correct way. Unfortunately, Amazon refused his request to delete his previous review and write a new one.

  I don't know if I can maybe get that guy to come here and talk about it or post the email correspondance between him and Jack to prove this. But regardless, I think the rest of the reviews speak for themselves.

  Anyway, I'll get to the places where he misunderstood:

  "They teach you how to have an orgasm out of your mouth instead of out your penis."

  NOT TRUE. KSMO teaches you how to express yourself and enhance your arousal. The orgasms are most definitely still happening in your penis, and potentially the rest of your body.

"Well, this seminar teaches you that instead of ejaculating, your orgasm can be in the form of roaring. The author compares it to the roar of a lion and that's what you should sound like during your orgasm."

  NOT EVEN CLOSE. Jack explains in the seminar how he discovered the technique. He remembered watching lions roar at a zoo and watched  their abdomens as they made the sound. He noticed that the abdominal muscles expanded and made certain motions in connection to the roar. So he explored ways to simulate those movements with sound. The results were surprisingly orgasmic and so he continue to investigated the phenomina. Eventually developing the Key Sound.

  HOWEVER he never says to "roar." The Key Sound is NOT an imitation of wildlife. It was inspired by wildlife. It's a very simple (and quite human) sound that actually is just as effective when made quietly (almost whisper level) as it is loud. The effectiveness is not reliant on volume, it's on proper expression.

 I have lived in 3 small apartments since I learned the KSMO, I've even practiced with my wife asleep in the next room. I have never woken her (or anyone else) in 5 years. But it is worth noting that yes, you may feel naturally moved to make the sound louder as you become more aroused. It's helpful to be able to be as loud as feels right in a session, but not absolutely necessary.

  If anything, the most volume is likely to come the sounds you will make in response to the Key Sound and the pleasure it brings. And by his, I mean moaning, groaning, even potentially screaming in pleasure. Not unlike a woman might during really good intercouse (but in a deeper, more manly kinda way, of course!).

  The one important thing to remember is that it's completely inappropriate to practice this technique within ear shot of children or unconsenting adults. It is a sexual act after all. So if you have kids in the house, be careful to ensure absolute privacy for their sake. Other than that, if the neighbors have never heard your wife, chances are they won't hear you either.

  "In fact, he says you'll roar so loud that you'll want to be certain your mouth is nowhere near your partner's (lover's or spouse's) ear because you can injure them. Then he explains you'll need to practice getting your mouth turned away from the person you make love to because the roars will be so intense."

  Yes, Jack does include a warning to this effect. But not because you will necessarily ever be that loud, it's simply a precaution because he doesn't want to get sued! I screamed at the top of my lungs many times in this practice, I never hurt my wife's ears or had to consciously turn away for her protection. I never heard of anyone making a complaint of this type.

  "I can't understand why I'm the first one to mention anything about roaring your orgasm."

  Simple- because he was the only one who misunderstood that part of the seminar!

 "The reason you and your partner are both supposed to know of these techniques is because when you roar, they are supposed to inhale your roar and then roar it back out to you so you can inhale it, and then you roar it back to them again."

  Again, no roaring invlolved here. But also, he's misleading here. Jack describes how there can be an exchange of this sexual pleasure between partners that is expressed in taking turns with the Key Sound. It's absolutely true. So much so that you can eventually feel their orgasms as if they were your own! But the "taking turns" isn't really necessary to accomplish this.

  As for the breathing, yes it's a common practice in many tradtional systems like Tantra to "breathe in" your lovers pleasure, especially as they express it fully. This is simply another example of that. It's not essential to practice, but merely an available (and worth while) option.

  "All the while doing this, waves of pleasure are supposed to emanate throughout your entire body thus giving you a full-body orgasm rather than a genital orgasm we're all accustomed to."

  PRECISELY! If you are doing it correctly that is...

  "I bought it two weeks ago and have listened to it five times"

  If that's true, he really doesn't know how to listen.

  "J.B.: The "Key Sound" sounds like a chime, NOT A ROAAAAR!!!"

Oh come on man, be fair. Did you even read the other reviews or just look for the only two that sucked? When you present this review as accurate and leave the others out, you're doing a disservice to people. At least give the whole picture.

 This was one guy who didn't pay attention to instructions or ask for clarification at the website. The other folks DID. THAT's why their reviews are positive and his is negative. It's not because he knows something they don't. It's clearly the other way around!



Sorry for old thread reply but very important post for me .. My friend is suffering from Pseudo-MMOs versus and I am trying my level best to help him.. SO thanks again
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 11:38:55 AM by JeremiahNorton » Logged
Bob
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 12:36:14 PM »

I would disagree that these are pseudo orgasms at all. Maybe for your friend but certainly not for me. I do let go but just not with semen.  I certainly know what wet orgasms feel like and I know what my dry ones feel like and I can compare  them. I am fully emotionally involved with the pleasure and my dry orgasms are usually stronger that my wet ones. Great if the KMSO system works for you or your friend but I do not think it is the only path to MMO.
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oakn
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 11:54:08 AM »

I know for me my O's with ejaculations vary in intensity... likewise so do my dry orgasms..  Some are transcendent...
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King
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 08:48:20 PM »

This "gender gap" bull is blown out of proportion.  The main reason people think that women enjoy sex more is because so many men are circumcised in the states. The foreskin acts solely for sexual pleasure (the clitoris equivalent?) and roughens the glans to be really desensitized. This is why people think the penis only has 4,000 nerves...in reality it has tens of thousands as a whole! And don't forget about the luscious scrotum either Smiley The prostate too! The whole "real thing" is just as natural as men as it is for women, if anything we can be considered the superior sex. Why? Men are a product of both woman and man. This is why men have lots of estrogen along with testosterone, whilst woman mostly have estrogen and small testosterone. Men are women and then some, in a sense. Just please don't label me as a misogynist.

When they say it's a mental game, it really is. As long as you think you're subpar to others, you kind of are. If you honestly want to enjoy the sex they are having just do so. It's all a matter of will. 
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Cirvante
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2014, 12:22:02 PM »

Men are a product of both woman and man. 
You don't say.
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King
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 03:08:56 PM »

Men are a product of both woman and man. 
You don't say.

By that I meant that a male has both a man and woman inside of him; if that makes any sense. Think about it like this; if we attribute X chromosomes to females, and Y to males; an XY has both but an XX only has one!
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Cirvante
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2014, 02:59:30 PM »

By that I meant that a male has both a man and woman inside of him; if that makes any sense. Think about it like this; if we attribute X chromosomes to females, and Y to males; an XY has both but an XX only has one!
I'm pretty sure I don't have a woman inside of me, but I'm all in favour of women having me inside of them.
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King
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 01:00:04 PM »

By that I meant that a male has both a man and woman inside of him; if that makes any sense. Think about it like this; if we attribute X chromosomes to females, and Y to males; an XY has both but an XX only has one!
I'm pretty sure I don't have a woman inside of me, but I'm all in favour of women having me inside of them.

Sorry for the confusing wording XD. but I agree with you on that one!
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