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Author Topic: Yet another view on MMO  (Read 3166 times)
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obscure
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« on: May 31, 2014, 10:38:34 AM »

First let me say I'm a newb, just a few weeks into MMO practice, so far with only few very week dry orgasms, but I believe I'm on a right track. Good stuff began to happening after I rearrange the pieces of the puzzle in a story I'm about to tell you here.
My English is bad so I apologize for mistakes.

First book that I read on the subject was Mantak Chia's Multi Orgasmic Man. The second one was Taoist Secret Of Love.

FIRST PROBLEM: How to identify preejaculatory contractions.
In he's books, Chia writes that before you hit PONR, if you pay close attention to the arousal levels in your body, you should feel contractions around anus and prostate. So I was concentrated during my edging session on the aforementioned phenomena but I was never able to identify nothing like that. Going closer and closer and closer, eventually hitting PONR over and over, but there was just nothing there for me.  Here's what I think why this was the case. Years ago, before I even knew about MMOs, I started to exercise my “PC” muscle, for better penis health and stronger erections. Back then it all felt to me like just one big muscle that makes mi penis jump up. I even work out in such way, by hanging towels and lifting them, and I was convinced that I have strong PC muscle, but in fact that was a BC muscle (twitching muscle, or Urogenital diaphragm in Chia's book). BIG DIFERENCE! Not only that, but because my focus was so strongly centered around that lifting movement, my other muscles PC, IC and anal ring was almost completely left out, and got fairly week and underdeveloped. So any kind of contractions around anus and prostate, that Chia is talking about, would be very hard for me to identify. To irony be even bigger, focusing on the thing I was probably unable to feel anyway, was distracting me from the very thing I should be focused on. If you have strong BC muscle, you might as well use it! As I later observe, BC muscle is good for registering the beginning of involuntary muscle spasms just as PC is. There is one additional difference, at least in my case. This involuntary spasms of BC muscle doesn't feel like multiple contractions at all (at least not at first), but rather as a sudden jump (more or less subtle) of constant tension, on top of tension that is usually already there. You can probably identify this feeling as the very last warning before you need to stop if you don't want to ejaculate. On rare occasions, while you use stop and go technic, or even better edging, it happens so that you just barely hit PONR, then you can truly feel it – Strong, very pleasurable constant tension in the base of your penis that can last for few seconds before the usual contractions and ejaculation starts to occur.  So if you are like me, and can't feel contractions in anus and around prostate, try to focus on this sudden jump of tension in the base of your penis, that is BC muscle.

SECOND PROBLEM: What is the actual purpose of muscle squeeze?
Again, this is just my understanding and it might not be true at all, but as I said, once I started thinking in this way, I made my fist big progress.
On many places they say that you need to squeeze your muscles in order to close ducts, or pipes in your body so that sperm can't go out. I believe that this is wrong way to thinking about it, and this is why. Once you hit PONR there's absolutely nothing you can do. That's why it's called that way - NO RETURN. You can squeeze all you the muscles you want, you can relax them, it doesn't matter where your sperm ends, in or out. With all these actions you can eventually messed up your orgasm, but once you hit PONR it means that refractory period will happen.
What you actually trying to accomplish with squeezing various muscles is to get the grips with your arousal level. It has nothing to do with closing pipes, but instead it's the tool which you use to gently bend the curve of your arousal to your favor. In order for dry orgasm to happen, you need to spend enough time in this zone between beginning of involuntary muscle spasms (IMS on the picture) and PONR. Simple edging with no additional action won't do it (except maybe if your sexual energy is very high, which is definitely not the case with average Joe who ejaculates on almost daily basis and just started the practice).

http://postimg.org/image/l6fchpfhx

TOOLS OF THE TRADE:
To succesfully  manipulate curve of your arousal, first you need to identify the tools that are at your disposal. For me, it's like this: To increase my arousal level – fantasy, porn, stimulation of the penis, squeeze BC muscle; To decrease arousal: draw the energy away, deep breathing, relax BC muscle, squeeze PC and muscles around anus.

Some of the members here write that they can successfully delay ejaculation with “PC” squeeze method on a lower level of arousal, yet i causes them to ejaculate when they are close to PONR. This was exactly my problem also.

THIRD PROBLEM: Irradiation
If you think about squeeze methods as a mean to shut ducts and pipes inside of body, then it only makes perfect sense to try to squeeze them as hard and as long as possible, right? I believe that this line of thinking is exactly what will make things harder for you.

“Tension – or weight – is the name of the game. The more you produce, the stronger and harder you will get! Make a tight fist. Where do you feel the tension? Your forearm and biceps, right? Even tighter! White knuckles! Do you feel your shoulder and even chest flexing too?
Technically, only the finger flexor muscles in the forearm make fist. In reality, when the demand for force increases, other muscles jump in on the action. Like a stone dropped in the water sends ripples across the surface, tension spreads – irradiates – from the muscle directly responsible for the job at hand towards others. The bigger the stone, the taller are the waves and the further they spread ” [Pavel Tsatsouline, Power To The People]


The harder you squeeze any pelvic muscle, the harder it will be to isolate that particular muscle, because more tension (energy) will overflow to surrounding muscles. This means that during any violent squeeze, you will get more or less blended action of all muscles in the area. Problem with this is that contraction of BC muscle will add a spike, it will momentary boost  your current arousal level, before it eventually subsides on a count of anal muscle squeeze. The stronger contraction the bigger the boost.

http://postimg.org/image/bn5no8rzp

 When you are away from PONR this is not a problem, and works just fine, but the closer you are to the PONR, and especially when you are in IMS zone this becomes intolerable, and most likely it will cause you to hit PONR.

http://postimg.org/image/5aqieeoxh

The solution to this problem is very gentle squeeze of anal muscles, so you can isolate them to greater degree. Today i work my pelvic floor in following manner. I separate training for strength, and training for control. For strength i concentrate on 10 very hard, almost all out effort contractions of all the muscles down there at the same time, 2-3 times a day. Every squeeze last for about 1-2 sec.  I'm trying to make it fairly intense, but I'm never pushing to fatigue. Since I'm now able to separate different muscles, I try to put little more focus on anal region, but I'm not trying to isolate anything, and I'm not even concerned if there are some little involvement from buttocks, legs, or abdominal muscles. To make them stronger it's all about maximizing tension on low reps. On top of that, as a part of my training for control I play with  very light squeezes, where I try to identify all sorts of different muscles and movements. I'm talking about very light contractions, so that even 100 or more reps don't feel strenuous.
So far I was able to identify two very effective movements. First feels like you are squeezing anal ring tight and at the same moment you are trying to lift it up, vertical inside your body. The other is also like squeezing anal ring, but this time trying to push it horizontal towards the penis. Once I was able to master this two actions I started to add some intensity, but I still keep it very light, and playfully. Both are very effective and it only takes surprisingly light squeeze to do the job. To me that feels something like 20-30% of maximal effort. I can be all horny and on the verge of ejaculation, but if i decide so it only takes about 5-10 this quick light squeezes (about 20 sec altogether ) and my erection is gone, and also my desire to continue is gone. I can continue if I want, and regain erection within 1-2 min, but usually  I feel somehow content. In fact this is how I lately end my sessions without orgasms. No feeling of unfinished business, no agitation, no blue balls. Very potent for semen retention while you are waiting for sexual energy to build up.

So, when you are near to the PONR instead of squeezing the hell out of your muscles, try to do it slow and gently. It's no violent action of any kind. You are not trying to use brute force to plug some pipes, nor you trying to take away something from your body and beat your natural responces.  You are trying simply to cooperate, dance with them. You don't want to control everything, you just want your fair share. This means that you shouldn't try to completely shut down BC muscle. Once you focus on relaxing BC muscle you are actually dispersing the energy locally. It's good for slowing down early in the process, but once you are there, and you wanna have dry genital orgasm, you have to leave some energy in it. Let it tense and spasm at will, and at the same time use your anal muscles for fine tuning the energy level, just for brushing the edges. Slight pull now and then so not to crash into PONR.
Once i started to retain semen I also noticed that space between IMS and PONR grow larger. When I just started to put this theory in to practice, I was still ejaculating on a regular basis, and it was very difficult to be precise, so most often I would fail. So I started to retain semen in order to try my luck with whole body orgasms. After just 8 or so days I try it again and I noticed that I can go much higher over IMS line than before, and feel much more in control. Eventually, yesterday, few times I was able to push so far that this sudden jump in tension in BC muscle actually turned in to several contractions. True, very mild, but the feeling was just like significantly scaled down ejaculatory orgasm. Of course then I got overly confident and push things a bit to far Smiley
Anyway, I hope that at least some of you will find my story, or parts of it helpful. Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 01:14:50 PM by obscure » Logged
obscure
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 05:50:43 AM »

If you read about other people experiences you will get a lot of mixed information. Things can quickly get very confusing for you. This is usually because different people often use same words and terms while they talk about different things, or see them more or less differently.
For the purpose of explaining what I mean, I will quote one of KepitupJohnson's post. 

“Men experience dry orgasms differently. From my point of view, squeezing my PC’s gently allows me to hit the point of no return without ejaculating. After I actually begin to orgasm, I continue squeezing my PC’s gently for a second. I’m aware that I’m holding something in. Then, if there is no bursting pressure in my penis, I relax completely and have a dry orgasm.

A steady PC muscle squeeze prevents the flow of sperm. I imagine squeezing the sperm gates shut. Relaxing my PC muscles allows the uncontrollable contractions of orgasm to take over.

Peace and love, Keepitup Johnson"


Now at first glance, there are some major disagreement in our views, especially considering point of no return, but what he's saying actually has a perfect sense to me. In fact many of his post helped me greatly in my understanding of MMO.
If you are math savy, I would say that we are describing exactly the same function just in a different coordinating systems, and with different marks.

As I said before, when I refer to PONR I mean exactly that. Point or a level, or a line even, that once you reach it, there is nothing you can do to avoid refractory period. If you can reach it, or pass it, and then return, go back and continue then it's not PONR, it must be something else. But what else? In my understanding, in order to have a dry orgasm you need to go beyond the line of involuntary muscle spasms, then subtle manipulate arousal level, so that you stay there for a while. If you are able to do that, then constant tension in BC muscle will actually unfold in a pleasurable rhythmic contraction aka dry orgasm. I believe that when Keepitup in a quoted post above talks about “point of no return” he actually refers on this point in time when contractions unfold. This whole process, as I understand it, happens actually below PONR level.

So this is how I would translate his method to fit my understanding:
As he passes the line of involuntary muscle spasms, he gently squeezes the PC and/or anal muscles to pull the brake on his arousal level, to bend the curve. Stimulation of the penis is a force that drives his arousal level up toward PONR, and visualization of shutting the sperm gates and squeezing anal muscles is a tool for reducing arousal level. By manipulating this two forces he achieve an equlibrium, so that curve of his arousal level continues more or less in a horizontal way, and this will trigger involuntary contractions to unfold. Once he's attain this goal, and he's certain that his arousal wont go up, all there is to do is to relax and enjoy in muscle contractions. Again, very important,  I'm sure that “relax” here doesn't mean to deliberately try to get rid of any tension in the muscles, but simply let your self go, don't do any action.
It would be nice to hear Keepitup's thoughts on this.

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KeepitupJohnson
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 12:17:26 AM »

I believe that when Keepitup in a quoted post above talks about “point of no return” he actually refers on this point in time when contractions unfold. This whole process, as I understand it, happens actually below PONR level.

Yes, you have it right. You have a lot of understanding. Your post shows that you have done a lot of careful analysis. Good job.

I stop the stimulation before I get to the point of no return, and then I relax. Everyone calls this edging. As I suggest in my book, Love Satisfies, use the PC muscles like brakes to slow down whenever you approach approach orgasm with bursting pressure. When I talk about bursting pressure in the penis, I am simply talking about ejaculating. You know . . . ejaculating is like bursting open with semen spurting, bursting, and ejecting out.


IMHO (in my humble opinion), the big trick to dry orgasms is to climax without bursting pressure in the penis. In Love Satisfies: how to have male multiple orgasms , I offer many tricks to lower this bursting pressure in the penis. One trick to lower bursting pressure in the penis at the point of orgasm is sending all of your sexual energy somewhere else. You can send it into her. You can send it into the universe. You can send this bursting energy into your bones. I don't care where you send it. You decide where to send it. How is this done?

As I explain in Love Satisfies, *(the pictures in the book help explain this), wherever your attention goes, your energy flows. Most men mainly focus on the pleasure in their penis so all their sexual energy flows into (and out of) their penis. Try focusing your attention somewhere else. Feel the pleasure all over your body is one suggestion.

FYI, seeing women as sex objects causes all your sexual energy to flow into your penis. Instead of focusing on her tits and ass, love her, connect with her, care about her - even in fantasy. When it comes to male multiples, keeping your sexual energy loving instead of lusting helps. Love really does satisfy.

Peace and love,
Keepitup Johnson, author Love Satisfies,

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Satisfies-infinite-non-ejaculatory-Sustainable/dp/1479215694/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_1_pap?ie=UTF8&qid=1401686171&sr=8-1&keywords=love+satisfies


« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 12:37:27 AM by KeepitupJohnson » Logged

Keepitup Johnson, author of Love Satisfies, how to have infinite male multiple orgasms, available from Amazon.com
KeepitupJohnson
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 12:30:57 AM »

When you feel semen rising up into your penis, you've gone too far, you've passed the PONR (point of no return). Better to not let the sperm rise up your penis.

One way is to stop the stimulation sooner. Another is to imagine your sexual energy rising up your spine. Keep in mind that lusty energy is a heavy energy. It's going to stay in your penis. Lust is too heavy to lift up your spine. Love is a light energy. Love can rise up your spine. That's why I recommend love, not lust.
 
If I'm lustfully thinking about fucking ass, I can still have multiple dry orgasms (it's easier when I'm not lusting), but I never really feel satisfied with lust, even after 20 dry orgasms. WIth lust, I only feel relief after I ejaculate the lust out - ejaculating drains the lust. I call this draining the poison.

Last night and this morning, I made love with my partner. Last night, I had four orgasms, and this morning, three. This morning, I clearly remember thinking and feeling how one dry orgasm totally satisfied.   Smiley Love Satisfies. It's all about love. My next book is going to be all about love. More Love Satisfies. I'll finish it this summer.

Peace and love,
Keepitup
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 01:12:26 AM by KeepitupJohnson » Logged

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obscure
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 03:35:18 AM »

Thanks Keepitup, great posts, as always!  Smiley
I did grasp this notion about whole thing being just subtle play of nervous system and energy, and that all this different method actually deal with the same underlying process of moving the energy. Purposely removing the tension from BC muscle and trying to relax it completely I see as a local dispersion of energy (although as I get better at moving energy even with this action some small amount of energy somehow spontaneously gets in to my brain). Squeezing the anal muscles works just like pumping the energy up to heart or brain, I presume that's why if I finish my session with this action I feel somehow content even if don't have an orgasm. Same goes for all visualization methods, same thing just more subtle without any muscle action, they focus your mind away from genitals, and the energy follow. The most profound I have use, and have some practical success in moving energy is just by simply focus on the back of my head when I wanna delay orgasm.
What I'm still having trouble with is lust. If I don't watch porn, then my fantasies are lustful, although with semen retention they tend to become more softcore, almost as they dissolve in sexual energy, to some degree. But it's hard to even imagine arouse myself during masturbation without watching or fantasising about hot scenes. 
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